syendu1
01-14 06:43 PM
well, the people who are in eb3 and cannot do anything about it, for reasons that you quoted, i agree, it is a pity. but, you know what, "life is not fair".
Yes life is not fair but when we get a chance to be fair we (And that includes me also) let it go by.
it is a good thing u worry about others, and want to help them. however, when u look at those bills you mentioned and none getting passed. yes, it may look like a waste to do anything. however, we need to keep trying. with the limited resources we have, i think we should focus on "things/bills/issues" the IMPACT most people. doing something only for eb3 or eb2, in my opinion, would be even more difficult, given the progress legal immigration has made in this country. so, may be, u cud help in getting the things done that impact more people.
What i porposed was doing something in the DV bill for badly retrogressed applicants (There wil be no reference to EB3 or EB2). Now the fact that this might help EB3 is because EB3 is the most badly retrogressed section.
and it is ur decision not to go eb2 (even, with the resources you mentioned). have to admit, thats strange. may be u r like me, who is not obsessed with a gc. however, we live in a society, in a system (however flawed it may be), and we all try to live by those rules, try to use opportunities that are available legally and make our lives, a little better.
You know what i was tempted to do EB2 but my sense of right and wrong prevented me. My mess up the already loaded and unstable system with another app when i already have one. Now for persons who are in EB3 (Please remove me from the equation) are thier not because they wanted to but because of the way thei whole immigration crap has evolved. Sure porting will help me out and i wil not need to justify this to anyone else but i will have to face myself. I know most people do not get it. It is doing right.
i came to this country in 1999, i have a MS, PHD from a reputed Comp Sci program. Many people who (still) dont know much about Computer Sci. came into the dept, got their MS and have been very successful, making tons of money. i am a guy whose bs, ms and phd is in Comp Sci. i think u will find may 2 or 3 guz out of may 10, who have a degree in CS, particularly in the undergrad. i used to be very mad at all the electrical, mechanical etc guz getting software jobs. i used to hate almost all software professionals coz i thought i had to work very had for my ranks, on my gpa and on my degrees and see there are people who are making as much as i do, with none of that. slowly, but surely, i have come to terms that "life is not fair" and then, what if fellow human beings can get good jobs, whats wrong with that?? is how i started to see it, (as long as they are good enough).
No comments there i agree with you
what i am trying to say is please think in a global scale and help solve issues which can impact the MOST number of people and not just a minority. coz, the exceptions u stated, will be there for any issue.
Global scale. I thought we were on scale of US. Please let me correct you EB3 is not a minority but a Majority in the EB community. just because a situation is not worth helping is not any reason to not step forward. I personally feel that IV can do something which will help EB3 because that i sthe only category which has no help from anyone. As for EB2 i have no grudges against them . You got your GC or will get it soon and all the best of luck to you, but if something can be done for EB3 it should be
Jai Hind
well, it is noble to do what is "right" and to always stand for it. but, i dont believe for a second porting is "wrong". u wouldn't agree though but u dont have problems when others port. i have no argument about that.
people r in eb3, not becoz they want to. sure, i agree, given a choice, everyone will pick eb1. however, the question is, why have they been put there?? nobody forced them to. u dont qualify for other categories, u deal with it. (there may a few exceptions to that). so, i wud not feel really bad for people who had to be in eb3 (cud be lack of need qualifications or any other reasons, even things out of their control). as i said "life is not fair".
i think it is global, aren't there ROW eb3 people who are retrogressed as well. now, u may have a point in saying that eb3 is the majority. isn't that the case anywhere. take a look at the train (first class- few people, second class - more, general -- a lot). pls dont take this example as derogatory, becoz i dont mean it that way. my intention is usually the most generic category (that which may apply to most people) is most crowded. so, doing something wud probably impact a whole number of people--which means yes, anything possible that somebody can, should and must do.
however, that and being ahead in time, cannot be used as the only reasons to bypass eb2 and service or even share with eb3 (i think this was something proposed by some eb3 folks on this forum), i wud not agree. there were some other suggestions too, that i thought was not right. and i have already talked to you about my logic as to why.
i just thought working towards something that applies to "ALL" would be the way to go. But, I can kind of see your point too. Best of luck in whatever you do.
Finally, I did not answer your reply promptly as I was on my way back from work and I replied the first chance I got. (now, i'll go watch social network and relax, i have family visiting me). and thanks for wishing me for my gc. i wish the same to u.
Jai Hind
Yes life is not fair but when we get a chance to be fair we (And that includes me also) let it go by.
it is a good thing u worry about others, and want to help them. however, when u look at those bills you mentioned and none getting passed. yes, it may look like a waste to do anything. however, we need to keep trying. with the limited resources we have, i think we should focus on "things/bills/issues" the IMPACT most people. doing something only for eb3 or eb2, in my opinion, would be even more difficult, given the progress legal immigration has made in this country. so, may be, u cud help in getting the things done that impact more people.
What i porposed was doing something in the DV bill for badly retrogressed applicants (There wil be no reference to EB3 or EB2). Now the fact that this might help EB3 is because EB3 is the most badly retrogressed section.
and it is ur decision not to go eb2 (even, with the resources you mentioned). have to admit, thats strange. may be u r like me, who is not obsessed with a gc. however, we live in a society, in a system (however flawed it may be), and we all try to live by those rules, try to use opportunities that are available legally and make our lives, a little better.
You know what i was tempted to do EB2 but my sense of right and wrong prevented me. My mess up the already loaded and unstable system with another app when i already have one. Now for persons who are in EB3 (Please remove me from the equation) are thier not because they wanted to but because of the way thei whole immigration crap has evolved. Sure porting will help me out and i wil not need to justify this to anyone else but i will have to face myself. I know most people do not get it. It is doing right.
i came to this country in 1999, i have a MS, PHD from a reputed Comp Sci program. Many people who (still) dont know much about Computer Sci. came into the dept, got their MS and have been very successful, making tons of money. i am a guy whose bs, ms and phd is in Comp Sci. i think u will find may 2 or 3 guz out of may 10, who have a degree in CS, particularly in the undergrad. i used to be very mad at all the electrical, mechanical etc guz getting software jobs. i used to hate almost all software professionals coz i thought i had to work very had for my ranks, on my gpa and on my degrees and see there are people who are making as much as i do, with none of that. slowly, but surely, i have come to terms that "life is not fair" and then, what if fellow human beings can get good jobs, whats wrong with that?? is how i started to see it, (as long as they are good enough).
No comments there i agree with you
what i am trying to say is please think in a global scale and help solve issues which can impact the MOST number of people and not just a minority. coz, the exceptions u stated, will be there for any issue.
Global scale. I thought we were on scale of US. Please let me correct you EB3 is not a minority but a Majority in the EB community. just because a situation is not worth helping is not any reason to not step forward. I personally feel that IV can do something which will help EB3 because that i sthe only category which has no help from anyone. As for EB2 i have no grudges against them . You got your GC or will get it soon and all the best of luck to you, but if something can be done for EB3 it should be
Jai Hind
well, it is noble to do what is "right" and to always stand for it. but, i dont believe for a second porting is "wrong". u wouldn't agree though but u dont have problems when others port. i have no argument about that.
people r in eb3, not becoz they want to. sure, i agree, given a choice, everyone will pick eb1. however, the question is, why have they been put there?? nobody forced them to. u dont qualify for other categories, u deal with it. (there may a few exceptions to that). so, i wud not feel really bad for people who had to be in eb3 (cud be lack of need qualifications or any other reasons, even things out of their control). as i said "life is not fair".
i think it is global, aren't there ROW eb3 people who are retrogressed as well. now, u may have a point in saying that eb3 is the majority. isn't that the case anywhere. take a look at the train (first class- few people, second class - more, general -- a lot). pls dont take this example as derogatory, becoz i dont mean it that way. my intention is usually the most generic category (that which may apply to most people) is most crowded. so, doing something wud probably impact a whole number of people--which means yes, anything possible that somebody can, should and must do.
however, that and being ahead in time, cannot be used as the only reasons to bypass eb2 and service or even share with eb3 (i think this was something proposed by some eb3 folks on this forum), i wud not agree. there were some other suggestions too, that i thought was not right. and i have already talked to you about my logic as to why.
i just thought working towards something that applies to "ALL" would be the way to go. But, I can kind of see your point too. Best of luck in whatever you do.
Finally, I did not answer your reply promptly as I was on my way back from work and I replied the first chance I got. (now, i'll go watch social network and relax, i have family visiting me). and thanks for wishing me for my gc. i wish the same to u.
Jai Hind
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rockstart
09-24 09:11 AM
Has some one cross validated USCIS numbers against IV Tracker data? Till now we always assumed that tracker data was 1% of entire population. This is a good time for some data guru to tell us actually how many people (% wise) are on IV. A break-up by month (PD) might be preferable because I feel older PD people are more active than newer ones.
alex77
08-18 01:50 PM
Excellent observation. You deserve a green!
Bollywood should first pay taxes, none of these icons, pay taxes legimately in India, remember them dancing in the partys of mafia, which is tied to terrorists, I think the agent did a great job in nabbing this guy. The VVIP mentality should end in India. Stupid illeterate politicians are over playing this, Ambika Soni should do what she is supossed to do in her office.
Bollywood should first pay taxes, none of these icons, pay taxes legimately in India, remember them dancing in the partys of mafia, which is tied to terrorists, I think the agent did a great job in nabbing this guy. The VVIP mentality should end in India. Stupid illeterate politicians are over playing this, Ambika Soni should do what she is supossed to do in her office.
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mirage
04-01 03:59 PM
It doesn't cost you anything to make promises, also people are used to being ditched by politicians, so they don't complaint. I guess mostly people feel satisfied by just getting the glimpse of you if you are a celeberity, otherwise why would anybody vote for Sanjay Dutt(thank God Supreme court banned him) ? Govinda, Dharmendra, Jayapradha have proved to be worst MPs for their constituencies...Mirage, thanks for the correction..
wondering what he is going to promise to people of Moradabad !?!
wondering what he is going to promise to people of Moradabad !?!
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gomirage
06-12 10:30 PM
Exactly what I had tried to express, you have succinctly put them in numbers. Thank you
Both of you are missing the point. No matter how you spin it, 140,000 people getting GC per is better than reduced quota of say 80,000.
Have you asked yourselves how you would fare if H1B program did not exist. I am not saying that you will not get GC without h1b and EB programs, sure you could go the uggly way, getting married to the fat lady in your apartment building for example.
To sum it up I would take long wait compared to no program or a nobel-prizes only program, any day of the week.
peace.
Both of you are missing the point. No matter how you spin it, 140,000 people getting GC per is better than reduced quota of say 80,000.
Have you asked yourselves how you would fare if H1B program did not exist. I am not saying that you will not get GC without h1b and EB programs, sure you could go the uggly way, getting married to the fat lady in your apartment building for example.
To sum it up I would take long wait compared to no program or a nobel-prizes only program, any day of the week.
peace.
Lasantha
12-14 04:41 PM
If that were the case then the rest of us must be equlally skeptical of your ideas since you yourself hail from an oversubscribed country. :cool:
All you need to do is listen to the idea with an open mind and see if that makes sense. Obviously the ppl from oversubscribed countries would love to see these restrictions removed (and I can understand that) but please also keep in mind that the people from ROW will think twice about supporting such a move if it's done without other provisions like increasing the total quota, visa recapture, excluding dependents and faster processing times.
On the other hand if you are from "ROW" then all your attempts to kill this ideas will make me understand how scared you are of this idea and hence how good this idea really is. :)
All you need to do is listen to the idea with an open mind and see if that makes sense. Obviously the ppl from oversubscribed countries would love to see these restrictions removed (and I can understand that) but please also keep in mind that the people from ROW will think twice about supporting such a move if it's done without other provisions like increasing the total quota, visa recapture, excluding dependents and faster processing times.
On the other hand if you are from "ROW" then all your attempts to kill this ideas will make me understand how scared you are of this idea and hence how good this idea really is. :)
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chanduv23
02-13 06:32 PM
friends,
you have 29 people in favor.
great! each one needs to put their time and money where their mouths (mouses) are.
i suggest: take up a collection, then go get top notch legal opinion.
until you do this, no point going forward, this is going to be a very
important step.
c'mon folks step up...get a collection plate out and open your pockets.
If we reach a critical mass of 50 people - "genuine" people - then it is a good start - the first step can be to look for the best lawyer for this kind of issue. This need not be an immigration lawyer if I am not wrong.
A main team of 5 people can lead this and form a mailing list to include the interest parties.
you have 29 people in favor.
great! each one needs to put their time and money where their mouths (mouses) are.
i suggest: take up a collection, then go get top notch legal opinion.
until you do this, no point going forward, this is going to be a very
important step.
c'mon folks step up...get a collection plate out and open your pockets.
If we reach a critical mass of 50 people - "genuine" people - then it is a good start - the first step can be to look for the best lawyer for this kind of issue. This need not be an immigration lawyer if I am not wrong.
A main team of 5 people can lead this and form a mailing list to include the interest parties.
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nomi
10-18 03:30 PM
Do I need to keep job or Stay in USA once I-140 approved ?? Reason I am asking that my I-140 is approved but my PD is not current and also got my Canadian PR too. If I move in Canada and see what possibilites available there for me and come back in USA when PD is current or file consular process from Canada whenever PD is current. .. what do you guys think about it ?? Any thoughts or feedback ??
Thanks in advance
Thanks in advance
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cal97
07-10 12:47 PM
Wish you all the best. I may follow you too. Have time till Oct 08 to mull on this on-going GC crap.
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dingudi
02-15 04:38 PM
The reason we have greater supply of workforce in IT from one specific country is not because of skills or talents. Almost every IT workers from ROW and China came to the US as a foreign student after TOEFL, GMAT, GRE, internship and only then landed a job in IT. Whereas the preponderence of IT workers from India came here through L1/B1/H1 sponsorship through bodyshops. Attending school, preparing for generalized tests requires time, money and patience. This is one big factor why the supply curve is skewed.
I am an Indian and also came as a student giving GRE/TOEFL. So do not generalize that IT workers from India came here via L1/B1 route. Some of them did but some did not. I know lot of Indian who came here to study.
If India is producing more people qualified in these skills then its not their fault.
I am an Indian and also came as a student giving GRE/TOEFL. So do not generalize that IT workers from India came here via L1/B1 route. Some of them did but some did not. I know lot of Indian who came here to study.
If India is producing more people qualified in these skills then its not their fault.
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alterego
12-14 05:26 PM
An additional thing I want to point out is that the US cannot make itself diverse by restricting immigration to a diverse population mix. It is a well known fact that Hispanic american women bear many more children than Caucasian american women. How does america fix that, and if it does not then why talk about diversity in immigration?
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rishimehta
09-12 05:25 PM
I worked for the company X for 5 Years . During this period My labor was approved in PERM in EB3 PD 05/15/2006. My I - 140 was alos approved Sep 2006 in EB3. I left the company X & started to work for another technology company Y. In July of 2007, I applied for the I-485 via Company X based on Future employment. I-485 is pending since July 2, 2007. Also applied for EAD & Advance parole which latter got approved. Meanwhile, I have an old labor pending with Company X which got approved with PD of Jan 23, 2003 in EB 2 Category. Company X applied for I-140 based In EB2 PD Jan 2003. This I -140 got approved in May 2008. Company X requested Interfiling with USCIS. Meanwhile I Changed jod & started working for company Z with H1B Transfer.
Here are my questions:
Can I revoke AC21 with my new company Z?
What happens if Company X closes before my I-485 is approved or an RFE is received.
What should I do to minimize risk in getting Green card. Note that Company X is not in a very Good financial position currently.
Your response is aapprciated.
Here are my questions:
Can I revoke AC21 with my new company Z?
What happens if Company X closes before my I-485 is approved or an RFE is received.
What should I do to minimize risk in getting Green card. Note that Company X is not in a very Good financial position currently.
Your response is aapprciated.
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MunnaBhai
06-28 04:56 PM
I don't think that they will APPROVE 40,000 appplications in a week. Well they were unable to do so in an year, how come in a week or two.
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sidbee
05-30 11:52 AM
I know this guy who was a junior to me and reporting to me in India. I resigned and moved with another company and later moved to US. After an year I joined the same company which I was working in India. Now this guy, just because having some relation with the VP made some arrangement and came to US on L1 and applied under EB1 and got his GC in 1.5 years. More over he was no good as manager and a pathetic programmer. Also he did no good to the company actually lost a few clients and when he got his ass on fire he moved to other company and started working as a pathetic programmer with his GC
When I saw this I was so irritated and now thinking what the FUCK this Grassely is doing for this.I think neither we doing anything. He just wants votes by creating sensation among the white rednecks for the next election.
AAAHHHHH... nuts nuts nuts.. 10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1... hooo.. :) controlling my anger..
This is the worst thing we Indians do , we want to pull legs of people who are going ahead of us.
If he got his GC through EB1 , if he is a manager , he deserves it.
If i don't like my manager and do not agree to him , this doesn't make him a bad manager , and even if he is a bad manager for his employees, doesn't mean he is a bad manager for the employer.
I also joined the same company , i used to work for in India, All the guys who use to be my juniors , are seniors /peers now . In India you get a promotion easily , and that's not the case in US.
If you come to US as a manager , you have a bright future , but if you come as a developer/contributor and hope to become a manager(at the same pace ,as if you are in India)you are looking for lot of struggle my friend.
When I saw this I was so irritated and now thinking what the FUCK this Grassely is doing for this.I think neither we doing anything. He just wants votes by creating sensation among the white rednecks for the next election.
AAAHHHHH... nuts nuts nuts.. 10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1... hooo.. :) controlling my anger..
This is the worst thing we Indians do , we want to pull legs of people who are going ahead of us.
If he got his GC through EB1 , if he is a manager , he deserves it.
If i don't like my manager and do not agree to him , this doesn't make him a bad manager , and even if he is a bad manager for his employees, doesn't mean he is a bad manager for the employer.
I also joined the same company , i used to work for in India, All the guys who use to be my juniors , are seniors /peers now . In India you get a promotion easily , and that's not the case in US.
If you come to US as a manager , you have a bright future , but if you come as a developer/contributor and hope to become a manager(at the same pace ,as if you are in India)you are looking for lot of struggle my friend.
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TeddyKoochu
09-24 12:15 PM
This analysis is really excellent, how far do you foresee the EB2-I date going this year. Is there any hope for new people to file 485 this year? People who missed Jul 07 have waited long and can wait till next Sep in the hope that we will be able to file 485 this year.
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breddy2000
09-24 06:23 PM
This could be due to simple processing issues :
Filling issues (the application was filled in wrong category)
REF (delayed response to RFE)
Name-check (delayed namecheck)
Other technical issues
Medical condition
Spouse of EB2 India/China where the application is filed under wrong charageblity.
If you see the number of application pending in EB2 ROW for 2007 and 2008 they are huge compared to previous years somewhere in hundereds which can mean having the above said issues. The number of applications related to the above mentioned issues cannot spike significantly in just 2007 and 2008. Either the data is old and can mean that these applications are processed and approved and we wait until the new data is posted.
You can compare this with the PERM data. PERM data has very low EB2 ROW application in a given year and hence has always remained current.
Is my assumption correct?
Filling issues (the application was filled in wrong category)
REF (delayed response to RFE)
Name-check (delayed namecheck)
Other technical issues
Medical condition
Spouse of EB2 India/China where the application is filed under wrong charageblity.
If you see the number of application pending in EB2 ROW for 2007 and 2008 they are huge compared to previous years somewhere in hundereds which can mean having the above said issues. The number of applications related to the above mentioned issues cannot spike significantly in just 2007 and 2008. Either the data is old and can mean that these applications are processed and approved and we wait until the new data is posted.
You can compare this with the PERM data. PERM data has very low EB2 ROW application in a given year and hence has always remained current.
Is my assumption correct?
more...
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jsb
06-05 10:18 AM
Not really the biggest barrier is same or similar job. It is absolutely unfair no not let someone grow into different areas and keep the job exciting. I personally had to pass on so many opportunities even within my own company because of similar job constraint. In fact in many good companies including mine the executives encourage you to get experience in different areas of business before you are considered ready for executive positions and the VP of my division clearly told this to my director that i need to move on to a different job area. In general the AC 21 is risky and if you are waiting for 6-7 years you may not want to take the risk as USCIS make decisions which are unreasonable. AC 21 is also not a law and is subject to interpretation. The deal is that it is completely unfair to not let a person grow professionally and let him or her try different careers. Granted some folks may like to stay in same job area and continue what they are doing and these changes will not impact them but for those who want to try something different every few years this same or similar job rule is a curse.
EB is based on employer's need and sponsorship. Even AC21 is a deviation (in our favour) after 180 days wait. That seems fair, as permiiting you to ditch sponsoring employer soon after your filing for permanent residency could lead to fraud.
Any suggested change should not appear to be too much deviation from the original intent. Best potential seems to be for USCIS to communicate preadjudiation decion to clients without waiting for the visa number (stating that the decison letter could be used for GC benefits, such as those given by EAD & AP, until such time formal GC card is issued, which could be done when visa number becomes available). This should reduce USCIS workload as they will not have to keep on working same cases again and again with frequent requests for FP, job confirmation letters, etc.
EB is based on employer's need and sponsorship. Even AC21 is a deviation (in our favour) after 180 days wait. That seems fair, as permiiting you to ditch sponsoring employer soon after your filing for permanent residency could lead to fraud.
Any suggested change should not appear to be too much deviation from the original intent. Best potential seems to be for USCIS to communicate preadjudiation decion to clients without waiting for the visa number (stating that the decison letter could be used for GC benefits, such as those given by EAD & AP, until such time formal GC card is issued, which could be done when visa number becomes available). This should reduce USCIS workload as they will not have to keep on working same cases again and again with frequent requests for FP, job confirmation letters, etc.
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rpat1968
07-04 10:23 AM
I think we should contact DHS and all government agencies about the USCIS-DOS scam -
http://www.dhs.gov/xoig/
(their Mission Statement - To serve as an independent and objective inspection, audit, and investigative body to promote effectiveness, efficiency, and economy in the Department of Homeland Security's programs and operations, and to prevent and detect fraud, abuse, mismanagement, and waste in such programs and operations. )
http://www.dhs.gov/xoig/
(their Mission Statement - To serve as an independent and objective inspection, audit, and investigative body to promote effectiveness, efficiency, and economy in the Department of Homeland Security's programs and operations, and to prevent and detect fraud, abuse, mismanagement, and waste in such programs and operations. )
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_TrueFacts
09-05 03:26 AM
It is very troubling to note that one persons identity was uncovered online because his political views and legitimate concerns about the crimes of YSR (Good riddance to him).
IV must delete all posts relating to the uncovering of this gentlemans identity. And ensure it never happens again. If this is not done, we will lose faith and trust in IV.
IV core needs to understand this.
When criminal followers of YSR are abound even in USA, we have to deal with them. Shame on these educated idiots.
IV must delete all posts relating to the uncovering of this gentlemans identity. And ensure it never happens again. If this is not done, we will lose faith and trust in IV.
IV core needs to understand this.
When criminal followers of YSR are abound even in USA, we have to deal with them. Shame on these educated idiots.
chanduv23
02-13 03:44 PM
Buck up :) We all go through it. I never take it personally. I would definitely be happy if more and more members come forward and help, instead of "missing in action" when needed most.
We would be really happy if new members come up and take initiatives (i am now keeping my messages positive :) ) , more active members, more strength.
participation is contigeous, all we need is some self motivators and self starters to kindle the fire.
As a first step -people can
(1) Openly pledge support
(2) Contact their chapter leaders on their willingness to come forward
(3) Not get influenced by negative vibes
(4) Work towards reqruiting more volunteers.
Can we walk the talk?
We would be really happy if new members come up and take initiatives (i am now keeping my messages positive :) ) , more active members, more strength.
participation is contigeous, all we need is some self motivators and self starters to kindle the fire.
As a first step -people can
(1) Openly pledge support
(2) Contact their chapter leaders on their willingness to come forward
(3) Not get influenced by negative vibes
(4) Work towards reqruiting more volunteers.
Can we walk the talk?
eb3_nepa
06-28 05:15 PM
Still, just because DOS told USCIS "Visas are exhausted" doesnt mean they should stop ACCEPTING new petitions. They can stop APPROVING new ones, but why stop ACCEPTING new petitions. Visa bulletins guide the filing as well as approval of petitions. If visa bulletins is current, then they can both accept and approve petitions.
Logiclife No offense but I would keep pushing your lawyer. If he was REALLY confident, he would have stuck to his guns and filed at the end of July, the very fact that he has said he will file in the Beginning of July means that he knows, s**t happens FAST when USCIS is concerned ;)
Logiclife No offense but I would keep pushing your lawyer. If he was REALLY confident, he would have stuck to his guns and filed at the end of July, the very fact that he has said he will file in the Beginning of July means that he knows, s**t happens FAST when USCIS is concerned ;)
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